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Friday, 23 July 2010

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It seems like Persepolis would often be on a list like that. And while it might be a little oblique (or too brief) for the context, Gaiman and McKean's Mr. Punch would make for an interesting contrast in self-narration styles.

The problem with Persepolis is that it's French, as in "has an entirely different set of conventions from it's English or American counterparts." That might seem like a plus, but it's a lot to squeeze into a ten-week quarter. I can only swing the manga/anime in because of the fact that the majority of my students read manga and watch anime, so they're intuitively aware of most of the conventions. That said, I did not, in fact, think of Persepolis when lesson-planning, and you're right, it'd be perfect. I may just have to use it anyway, you know, do that thing where I pretend it's just a really innovative American book ... and telling them that I'm doing that, of course. Hm ...

I was just going to suggest Persepolis, too.

Motel got made into a film. I haven't read the original. It's not quite coming-of-age, but you could pretend that it is a play on the conventions of the coming-of-age story.

Here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/Motel-Sung-Kang/dp/B000JBXHE6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1279918618&sr=1-1

Also, I really liked the film The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys ... but it was adapted from a short-story collection not a graphic novel. You gotta find a way to stuff it in, though.

Hey, Scott, since you bring it up, can we resume the argument about Clowes, and particularly about David Boring? I still think I, and Hob on the LGM thread, had really good (in fact, the better) points suggesting that you were being too simplistic about Clowes. And you did say that you were going to reread DB and respond. Now, a lot of stuff has happened since then, so I've been very very good about not asking you to get back into the fight when you've had so much tzuris in your life. But this time you brought it up.

As for the question, I definitely think Ghost World should be taught. Other than that…Gaiman's Mr. Punch, though it's pretty unwieldy. Oooh ooh, and have you read Ariel Schrag? She went to high school with me, one year ahead of me. Potential is her best book, about her junior year of high school (when she found out she was a lesbian). It's funny, cartoony, and not too full of itself. And the minor flaws it does have result from it being written when she was still in high school, which seems to work very well with the class theme anyway.

Motel got made into a film. I haven't read the original. It's not quite coming-of-age, but you could pretend that it is a play on the conventions of the coming-of-age story

It sounds like a coming-of-age story at Amazon, or like something I could pair with American Born Chinese, if I wanted to teach that ... which I sorta don't. As I mentioned in the LGM version of this post: I actually considered that for inclusion in the course—it will be in the book, so long as we can get publishing rights—but decided against it because it chronicles an experience so close to that of many of my students. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but I’ve found that when students write about matters they can relate to, their essays become deeply personal instead of analytical, and that when you try to point out that this deeply personal essay they’ve written isn’t the rhetorical analysis they were asked to produce, they’re deeply and personally offended. Basically, it makes criticism impossible. However, once it’s established that they like the genre, I point out books like that instantly and they write me back later saying how much they loved them.

I really liked the film The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys ... but it was adapted from a short-story collection not a graphic novel. You gotta find a way to stuff it in, though.

As did I, but I need to stick to graphic novels for a course and book on visual rhetoric.

I still think I, and Hob on the LGM thread, had really good (in fact, the better) points suggesting that you were being too simplistic about Clowes. And you did say that you were going to reread DB and respond.

I did! But my scanner broke and I couldn't find any scans online, and ... the other stuff you mention. But yes, if I'm going to use Ghost World, I'll definitely be revisiting that conversation. And I'm not familiar with Ariel Schrag, but will make my self so.

Also, someone at LGM mentioned Spiderman. About which, all I'll say is: I did mention a "general summer malaise," and with your aid, I've proven it.

If you want to borrow any Schrag from me, let me know and I could drop it in your box. It's all been republished recently. When I bought Definition it was self-published at a local copy shop, and being distributed by her friends in the school courtyard.

On the other hand, as a teacher you can get free copies of books whenever you want, so treat yourself to Potential. It's not perfect but it's still very cool.

hello. I came to read your thinkings about our new friend Shirley.

I will check back later.

I have to say that I've never read Ghost World the graphic novel but the film is one of my favorite films of all time.

As Tom Lehrer pointed out there are many books and movies about characters who can't communicate with each other, and Ghost World works with that dynamic better than most and then managers to end on not one but two genuinely optimistic notes. The first of which suggests that, for all the difficulty it is possible for people to connect and the second which adds to that the possibility of unexplained transcendent good fortune.

I could happily elaborate, but I really think it's a remarkably well done movie.

Happyfeet: not to start the fireworks early, but I think you mean "our old friend Andrew." Who will hopefully become "our estranged friend Andrew," at least as far as the media is concerned, but somehow I don't think we'll be that lucky.

happy:

I will check back later.

Get an email address that doesn't fail! That said, and needless to say, having read those 9,000-long comment threads on PW in which everyone hates happy the apostate, I don't think we'll disagree about the means, only the ends.

But we both already knew that.

Also, and not for public consumption yet, the "Everyone Hates Ackerman" show will be canceled should Carlson ever publish the entire email in context. Reason for which could be explained ... should you have a working email address.

And also again, I once, well, this link is informative: http://tinyurl.com/punch-spencer

Nick:

I have to say that I've never read Ghost World the graphic novel but the film is one of my favorite films of all time.

The movie's far superior to the book, but then again, that's because you can't make actual human beings as flat as drawn characters. I know I need to get over my gut-level reaction to Clowes' misanthropy, but it's difficult because it's like he and I were wired in a mirror, bound to forever receive the opposite of the signal someone intended to send.

that's because you can't make actual human beings as flat as drawn characters

I'm beginning to understand why you don't want to teach Clowes.

I'm not surprised to hear that the comic isn't as good as the movie, because the movie is amazingly good. But it sounds like you're probably wise to try to avoid including it in the course.

I've also heard that the "Scott Pilgrim" adaptation will be released soon, if that would work.

Not sure it's coming-of-age, but Wristcutters: A Love Story was based on Pizzeria Kamikaze by Etgar Keret.

Also - I owe you a phone call. Sorry.

I thought it was based on "Kneller's Happy Campers"? Maybe they both were?

As I knew it, "Kneller's Happy Campers" was the title of it as it was serialized across 3 or 4 issues of the comic Polarity in the early 2000s, but was "Pizza Kamikaze" in trade paperback.

yes they hates us... angry proteins... they judges us they do. Hah just kidding we just disagree sometimes.

This one boggled me. I thought you'd have been more... engaged by it though.

But there's a lot more circumspection on this one in Team R circles then you'd notice at first glance I think. Lots of normally chatty folks what just don't seem to wanna talk about it.

I'm fairly (though not 100%) certain that "Wristcutters" was based off a short story called "Kneller's Happy Campers" in English, "Ha-Kaytana Shel Kneller" in the original Hebrew, which is included in an anthology of the same name by Etgar Keret. The comic was adapted from the story.

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